Adding to TRT...

[steamboatwillie]

I ran gear for the better part of 15 years, but have been off for 3 years. I decided to get hooked up on TRT so my wife and insurance companies would approve. I have gained a ton of fat since I went off (nearly 100 pounds) and have no desire to do anything (lift, bang, say no to a cookie) so I knew my test (and will power, self esteem, etc.) was in the dumps. Sure enough my total test level was 260. My doctor put me on 50 mg of cyp per week, and is going to test me and adjust every 6 weeks. I know I shouldn't add anything yet until I get a steady dose, but when I do, what can I use? I know this baby does isn't going to stoke my fire, and I want to make some actual progress before it's too late. Thanks.

 

[Donnie Darko]

Not really answering your question here, but I had a buddy we all called Fat Joey. Fat Joey was pushing 450lbs at his biggest. He went to the dr and got all his labs and blood work done at his yearly physical. Fat Joey came to me and said his dr. cant find any reason hes that big. his thyroid was fine. I started him on a diet and asked him to talk to his dr. about checking his test levels. Turns out, his levels were just above 200. He immediately began 200mg/we of cyp and began working out (pretty much only light cardio). In one year, he dropped 100lbs by only changing is walking routine, a slight tweak in his diet and HRT. He now is just over 300lbs and mountain bikes. He also has a wife and a daughter now. He's a completely different person, physically and mentally, than just 5 years ago. Oh, and he was 37 when he started HRT, he's 42 now.

 

[MorganKane]

50 mg cyp a week?
Thats not much. Hopefully he will at least double that soon.

 

[NAS]

Never heard of trt that low 50? 100 should get you in the what 600s?

 

[Bigman1992]

120mg split into 2 shots a week for cypionate

 

[steamboatwillie]

Yeah...he said he wants me between 400-650. If this gets me to 400 and he doesn't want to go up any then I will probably be changing doctors. I know I'm 41 now and not at all what I used to be, but the bottom end of normal is not going to work for me...it's not even worth doing it at that point

 

[Xxplosive]

Yeah...he said he wants me between 400-650. If this gets me to 400 and he doesn't want to go up any then I will probably be changing doctors. I know I'm 41 now and not at all what I used to be, but the bottom end of normal is not going to work for me...it's not even worth doing it at that point

If your dr is saying that, dont waste months of your life and go find a new doc ASAP. Unfortunately, academia and modern society have ruined basic things like education and have spilled social/political beliefs into professional practices.

"Toxic Masculinity" is a real thing that is being pushed, and a 400 test level is what a lot of doctors would consider low to begin with. Makes me wonder if he's just some guy that loathes the idea of strong, masculine men. There are unfortunately people like that.

 

[nhbskull21]

I’d wait til your dose is adjusted and then see how frequently you get blood draws and what’s on the blood draws.

 

[hypertrophyy]

I wouldn't flame the doc. I don't know how old OP is, but trt can possibly be dangerous for people that are older and have been completely stagnant for some time. I'll use my father for example. He's in his 70's and they put him on trt.. He doesn't workout or anything. I can't recall how long he was on trt but he woke up one morning and couldn't see out of one of his eyes. The docs said he had a mini stroke and it was possibly from the trt. I believe he said that he wasn't donating blood timely and this possibly led to the stroke. He has lost vision in that eye permanently and is scared to touch trt after this.

I'm about to spill some bro science. I suspect blood vessels are somewhat like any muscle and if you aren't active and they have been hardening over the years, you have to spent some time getting everything back into shape. Having a high hemo just compounds the risks...

So the dr is probably taking things slow for his safety. Giving his body some time to adjust until he is more healthy. This is pure speculation.

 

[Triposinator]

Never heard of trt that low 50? 100 should get you in the what 600s?

I am on 60mg/week and run 600+, at 100/week I'm at 800. When I want to cycle, I use Trestolone Acetate.

As they say "everyone is different". I'll put it this way - nobody can accurately predict total T based upon a weekly dosage. If someone is injecting once a week, the fluctuations are significant depending on the day.

I can't recall how long he was on trt but he woke up one morning and couldn't see out of one of his eyes. The docs said he had a mini stroke and it was possibly from the trt. I believe he said that he wasn't donating blood timely and this possibly led to the stroke. He has lost vision in that eye permanently and is scared to touch trt after this..

It could "possibly" be from at least a dozen other things. Ask them to give you a citation from a study the next time they spew this crap. Did they tell him what his H&H lab results were?

 

[hypertrophyy]

It could "possibly" be from at least a dozen other things. Ask them to give you a citation from a study the next time they spew this crap. Did they tell him what his H&H lab results were?

I agree it could be a number of things. This was several years ago so it's a little vaige in my memory. I said it was bs when he first told told me, but gave it some consideration when he said his hemo was in the mid 50's. I didn't see the paper work myself and he has virtually no education on blood work. My father is ridiculously naive and just goes along with what ever he's told when it comes to doctors...

I've had enough experience with "medical professioals" to say 4 outta 5 are FOS.

 

[Bigman1992]

Yeah, I think part of the reason our body only produces a certain amount might be because we aren't healthy enough to be able to take it. I don't mean we, I mean people in general

 

[MorganKane]

Yeah...he said he wants me between 400-650. If this gets me to 400 and he doesn't want to go up any then I will probably be changing doctors. I know I'm 41 now and not at all what I used to be, but the bottom end of normal is not going to work for me...it's not even worth doing it at that point

So your doctor picked an arbitrary number. Basically, a feeling.
One of the doctors who prescribed me test was looking for a certain number not how I was feeling.
I switch to a doctor who cared how I felt not what my number said.

Do the same.

 

[dowork123]

This is my humble opinion. As for the doc, some people hyper respond. He/she is being cautious and was more than happy to increase. That’s how I read it.

As for when to add more, I would get 100% stable on your trt and milk that dose as long as you can. Change your diet up, workout at least lightly for a few months. Because of you can get results on say 200 e10d or ew, there’s no need to add to it yet. I always want to use as little test/drugs as possible. I genuinely believe the try dose, once optimized, will cause a major change. I’d wait at least 6 months. I’ve been on trt 3 years, 200 e10d. I’ve been training/eating seriously for about 4 months. I’ve gained 9 pounds. I won’t add more until this ends and/ or I start just getting fat from the food increases.

Good luck whatever you do, cheers!

 

[Boom180]

I will be 40 soon and was on trt for 2 to 2.5 years prior to coming off in June for Fertility reasons.
When I first went to my doc I was on every 2 weeks , very low dosage and it made 0 difference. We had a disagreement on dosage and ended up going to a clinic and they increased me and put me on every 4 days.
The sweet spot for me was 130 MG every 4 days and that got my levels to the 900 range and free test was good as well. The clinic wanted me above 800 at least from what I remember. I have since went back to that doc and he kept me on the 130 as he became more educated on it. Point being, I have had multiple friends who had the same experience of low low dosage. Trt clinic is more specialized. The solve all is how you feel in the long run. It took me almost 2 years upping every 6 months before we got the right spot. It's a marathon.

 

[zeusmcgee]

Yeah...he said he wants me between 400-650. If this gets me to 400 and he doesn't want to go up any then I will probably be changing doctors. I know I'm 41 now and not at all what I used to be, but the bottom end of normal is not going to work for me...it's not even worth doing it at that point

400 is definitely on the low end of the spectrum for test levels. I need to see if I can find the literature that says in a study men with test levels between 800-1100 had the most longevity and relative positive health markers as they aged where as men with sub 800 levels developed diabetes and other related illnesses at almost a 3 fold rate. Let me find it
Here’s one but not the from above.

Elevated Endogenous Testosterone Levels are not Associated With Significant Clinical Morbidity - PubMed

No association was found between higher endogenous testosterone levels and adverse events associated with testosterone therapy. Men with higher testosterone had increased hematocrit, but this was not clinically significant. This challenges what is considered a safe target for testosterone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Testosterone, aging, and the mind - Harvard Health

Testosterone affects many of the body's functions throughout a man's life. Some studies have attempted to link declining testosterone production in later life to decreased cognitive functio...

www.health.harvard.edu

Increase in male hormone testosterone helps improve body composition, even in men with low testosterone levels

A study finds that an increase in the male hormone testosterone helps to improve body composition, even in men with testosterone levels near the lower end of normal.

www.research.va.gov

Might be a good idea to get on some Metformin as well 500mg 2x per day as I imagine your BG levels are in the absolute shitter. Up your test to like 150mg per week split into 3 shots. If you want to add something like Drostanolone enanthate at 200mg per week that would probably be your best bet as it will help control any excess estrogen you may have as well as help your testosterone work more efficiently. Do not ask your doctor for the Drostanolone either that will be something for you to research and find.

 

[Xxplosive]

So your doctor picked an arbitrary number. Basically, a feeling.
One of the doctors who prescribed me test was looking for a certain number not how I was feeling.
I switch to a doctor who cared how I felt not what my number said.

Do the same.

Doesnt matter if it's a trt doctor, cardiologist, proctologist or even another type of professional- there are schmucks in every single profession that either don't really care about their job or aren't good at it, so if in the case of a doctor, they are telling you everything is fine and you clearly don't feel fine- get a 2nd opinion.

Years ago, i had an idiot foreign doctor who during a general check up had mentioned to that i was having a lot of swelling/pain in my knee after playing basketball games on my reconstructed knee, and wanted a solution. He laughed and told me "Well maybe you shouldn't play basketball". Did not bother to press me on other symptoms, physically examine the knee, or order an MRI. Does anyone think that doctors opinion deserves an ounce of respect or weight as a professional?

 

[Boom180]

I hit 1100 at one of my draws and they were pretty happy with that number. That was right after they upped me to 130 then it leveled out a bit.
I believe under 350 is what was required for my insurance to cover it, so you know that's low...
400 is shit just saying.... but I don't have a medical degree either.

 

[Bigman1992]

400 is definitely on the low end of the spectrum for test levels. I need to see if I can find the literature that says in a study men with test levels between 800-1100 had the most longevity and relative positive health markers as they aged where as men with sub 800 levels developed diabetes and other related illnesses at almost a 3 fold rate. Let me find it
Here’s one but not the from above.

Elevated Endogenous Testosterone Levels are not Associated With Significant Clinical Morbidity - PubMed

No association was found between higher endogenous testosterone levels and adverse events associated with testosterone therapy. Men with higher testosterone had increased hematocrit, but this was not clinically significant. This challenges what is considered a safe target for testosterone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Testosterone, aging, and the mind - Harvard Health

Testosterone affects many of the body's functions throughout a man's life. Some studies have attempted to link declining testosterone production in later life to decreased cognitive functio...

www.health.harvard.edu

Increase in male hormone testosterone helps improve body composition, even in men with low testosterone levels

A study finds that an increase in the male hormone testosterone helps to improve body composition, even in men with testosterone levels near the lower end of normal.

www.research.va.gov

Might be a good idea to get on some Metformin as well 500mg 2x per day as I imagine your BG levels are in the absolute shitter. Up your test to like 150mg per week split into 3 shots. If you want to add something like Drostanolone enanthate at 200mg per week that would probably be your best bet as it will help control any excess estrogen you may have as well as help your testosterone work more efficiently. Do not ask your doctor for the Drostanolone either that will be something for you to research and find.

200mg week masteron on top of 150mg test is quite high. From what I've read about primobolan, it should be ran at about 80% your dose of test or your estrogen becomes too low. I assume masteron is about as strong as primo. I'd do 120mg test and 100mg masteron personally. Of course everyone is different, but yeah I think masteron and primo are a bit potent at managing estrogen. At only 100mg test and 30mg primo my estrogen levels were fine.

 

[Bigman1992]

What I'm really curious about is..while yes I agree having low testosterone is unhealthy, I've believed our body keeps our testosterone low due to reasons like not having the cardiac capacity, or having certain blockages or something, so that we don't get damaged from having too high testosterone.

That might be wrong, but surely our body reacts differently to injected vs internally produced testosterone